Is this acceptable, or sexist and racist?

[englishangel]

JR

[marty]

I'm with Julian on this. I'm of the opinion that ethnically-specific organisations such as The Association of Black Police Officers or The New Nation newspaper are devisive. I'm sure they mean well but all they do is create an 'us and them' culture which is surely something we all need to move away from? As for The New Nation it actually says on its front page "Britain's best black newspaper" which I actually find quite offensive. As others have said, if there was a newspaper that styled itself as Britain's best white newspaper it would cause uproar. Its existence also suggests that 'black' stories don't get coverage in normal newspapers which I think is absolute nonsense - I see plenty of black and asian people in newspapers, on television, in music, films and sport.

I think these organisations/unions/magazines exist due to some perceived inbalance/racism bias in the area in which they operate. Whilst these prejudices may well exist I think setting up separate organisations specific to a certain race is a short-sighted move. Imbalances should be tackled head on and sorted out at the source. Legislation which forbids racial discrimination exists and I believe that's way to go rather than allowing people to create their own discriminatory clubs.

Also the suggestion that all black people are poor/disadvantaged (and the following implication that all white people are well off/privileged) is also wrong. The world isn't that black and white (excuse the pun). With regards to the European Federation of Black Women Business Owners it obviously exists to help Black Women Business Owners in need. Surely it would be better and far more inclusive to create a Federation that seeks to help ALL business owners in need? Surely there are white men, white women, asian men, asian women and black men who own businesses that are in equal need? Why found an organisation that effectively discriminates - surely discrimination is something we should be eradicating, not creating more of?

[englishangel]

I was reading today that Moira Stuart has been dropped as the BBC newsreader of choice on a Sunday. Now THAT calls for some positive discrimination, dropping the best newsreader on TV. My 21 year old thinks so anyway.

[midget]

Incidently, did you know that if you stare very hard at a woman wearing a habib, they get very flustered ?? I think they get the message though, and its NOT illegal to do so.

YET!

[icomefromalanddownunder]

A couple of weeks ago I attended a 'how to be a demonstrator' workshop to learn what I have been doing wrong for the past two years. Oh, that's a demonstrator who demonstrates things to undergrads, not a demonstrator who camps outside military bases in mud, rain and hail: I'm far too much of a wimp to be one of those.

One scenario put to us was: Student A had been noticeably agressive towards African Student B throughout the term, and was heard to refer to him as a 'Stupid, black, ba$tard'. What to do?

We all jumped in with having to report the incident due to EEO legislation, the fact that the situation should never have been allowed to get that far, blah, blah, blah.

Then a participant who just happens to be of 'foreign' extraction pointed out that none of us had suggested asking Student B how he felt about it. We had all put him into the role of victim, when he may have been quite happy, knowing that Student A is a di^khead to shrug it off, or, alternatively, take B outside and beat the c%ap out of him.

[sejintenej]

One scenario put to us was: Student A had been noticeably agressive towards African Student B throughout the term, and was heard to refer to him as a 'Stupid, black, ba$tard'. What to do?

We all jumped in with having to report the incident due to EEO legislation, the fact that the situation should never have been allowed to get that far, blah, blah, blah.

Then a participant who just happens to be of 'foreign' extraction pointed out that none of us had suggested asking Student B how he felt about it. We had all put him into the role of victim, when he may have been quite happy, knowing that Student A is a di^khead to shrug it off, or, alternatively, take B outside and beat the c%ap out of him.

Student B has no place in this argument - it doesn't matter what he/she thinks, if he/she doesn't mind / is willing to sort things out himself. He/she is the victim twice over. Technically it is none of his/her business.

The words were said therefore the utterer must be "sorted out" and heaven help the teacher if they were heard by an outsider.

Not to say that I approve of the curent trend - I think student B was right.

[englishangel]

Student B might be OK with it (surely not) but it just means that the ignorant person carries on doing it and upsets someone else.

[peter2095]

Uh ok.
I'm going to have to disagree.

If I, for example, felt that my interests as a white middle class disabled female were not being met, I'd do something about, just as all these minority organisations have done.

I don't know about New Zealand but over here I doubt if you would be allowed under race laws to form a White Association or a Middle Class Association or a White Female Asssociation. You could get away with "Disabled" provided it was not specifically white, with Female so long as it is not specifically white and Middle Class provided it is not white. OTOH you could have a Coloured, Indian, Sikh, Punjabi, Muslim (but I doubt Christian) anything along those lines.

Even if you can get round race laws then you would still be got by the police under laws covering behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace - it only needs one complaint, suggestion that perhaps something should be done .......

There are no laws against it. Why would there be? Look around, you have Neo Nazi groups and parties like the BNP. Of course you can set one up.

[Euterpe13]

I must agree that so-labelled " positive discrimination" makes me angry, and my pet hate is " international women's day" .... I refuse to be considered a needful minority/second class citizen. But then I am becoming more and more of an anarchist as I slip into hoary age...

[J.R.]

You want to be sitting in a bar in West London, having a pleasant drink with a couple of Kiwi's and a couple of Ozzies. After a pint or three, the banter between the Antipodean groups can, to say the least become VERY personal, with references to sexual encounters with either sheep or kangaroo's. The banter IS, however accepted by both parties as just good fun !

I can still remmeber the tears of mirth rolling down my cheeks.

[sejintenej]

Just been given a copy of the letter sent by SWMBO's Consultant to her GP starting

This elderly lady .......

She is quite a lot younger than a number of ladies on this forum, helps run two businesses ............

Ouch!

Oh, and the insultant is British Windian by the look of her; very pleasant and apparently competent. Obviously anyone from that background over 45 is ancient!

[J.R.]

Just been given a copy of the letter sent by SWMBO's Consultant to her GP starting

This elderly lady .......

She is quite a lot younger than a number of ladies on this forum, helps run two businesses ............

Ouch!

Oh, and the insultant is British Windian by the look of her; very pleasant and apparently competent. Obviously anyone from that background over 45 is ancient !

I'd better order my coffin now, then.

The fact that I will be giving 12 hours of my time tomorrow to raise money for a very recently widowed woman, her husband being 28 until last night is neither here nor there !

At least I still have my sense of humour, though I suspect some of our younger posters tend to disagree with me !!

[sejintenej]

Just been given a copy of the letter sent by SWMBO's Consultant to her GP starting

This elderly lady .......

She is quite a lot younger than a number of ladies on this forum, helps run two businesses ............

Ouch!

Oh, and the insultant is British Windian by the look of her; very pleasant and apparently competent. Obviously anyone from that background over 45 is ancient !

I'd better order my coffin now, then.

At least I still have my sense of humour, though I suspect some of our younger posters tend to disagree with me !!

SWMBO also thinks it is funny - though I haven't tried her on JR humour yet.

[Mid A 15]

I think these organisations possibly performed a useful function twenty or more years ago when there was definitely a lot of discrimination on race and other grounds.

However the cynic in me now sees what can only be described as a PC industry with a lot of very highly paid diversity coordinators etc, etc as can be seen from scanning The Guardian jobs pages for example.

These people have a vested interest in perpetuating divisiveness and play into the hands of the BNP, NF etc with their own form of bigoted intolerance of the views of others.

I do not think one would get away with forming, for example, a "white" organisation of any description.

I express this view because the police paid a visit to a law abiding devout Catholic couple of pensioners who had the temerity to suggest in a letter to the local rag that Catholic adoption agencies should not have to deal with homosexual couples because of their religious beliefs. The husband was threatened with prosecution for a "hate" crime but eventually magnaminously let off with a caution by our democracy upholding Boys In Blue.

[Hannoir]

So I guess the fundamental question to answer is - where is the tipping point beyond which a positive organisation becomes a negative one.
It may have been setup with all the right intentions, but as equality is reached then the distinction which is inevitable created due to the existence of the organisation self-perpetuates the exact thing they were trying to counter!

Yeah, but has equality been reached yet? No. I'm more than likely going to be getting lower pay than a male doing the same job as me - how is that fair? It's not. I could take on the powers that be by myself, but then I'd more than likely get nowhere - so I'd use an advocacy organisation to help me achieve equality. Same with anyone else who is disadvantaged - I have asian friends who have experienced racial discrimination at work and have used groups to help sort them out.

Just to clarify a few things - I didn't want to imply that all ethnic minorities are disadvantaged but more often than not, its the case....
I'm also in the UK, not NZ, but haven't changed my location.

And about the banter between kiwis and aussies - that rivalry has existed since before either country really existed - you know, goes back almost 200 years so its the norm. Such "banter" between us and say, immigrants isn't really acceptable because of cultural differences between western/other cultures (aussies and kiwis, whilst different, share a western culture), so thats why well, its just not acceptable. Its more about having respect for and celebrating the diversity we have.

Before I go and get on with my essay, I'll just let you know that my friends reckon I'm one of the most un-PC people around. I joke a lot, but only when appropriate, so just consider this a rational post from an equal, not a naive 23 year old, ok?