Becomming a New Dep

[Mrs C.]

I am appalled by the comments that one avenue houseparent only invited 1 grecian back for a bbq! Unfortunatly it was partially the same betwen my house grecians and our avenue house. In the avenue houseparents eyes two could do no wrong as they were very sporty in all the teams and helped our house win a lot of house leagues...i think they also played on this slightly to their advatnage. However for some of the others we were not really made to feel welcome coming back either by the houseparents and staff or the deps who were happy ruling the house.
.......

Whilst I`m not condoning the action of staff in not inviting Grecians back to Avenue houses, I can understand that it is sometimes not quite so easy for staff to make Grecians feel welcome .
Sometimes staff are new to the house and don`t know the Grecians.
Some Grecians refuse to do ( or are not required to) do duties in the Avenue house , or are unreliable, and yet these same pupils expect to have the benefit of all the social events of their house - hardly fair really.
A number Grecians seem to actually WANT to lose contact with their Avenue houses , although admittedly there are those who don`t , of course.
The issue of marching with Avenue houses is a tough one to crack - yes G`s want to be with their houses - but a large number know they won`t be checked up on if they don`t appear . Marching is a school commitment, just as attendance at lessons and I`m sure that`s why the decision has been made to march as GRE and GRW.
Those Grecians who say they enjoy marching with the house as it gives them chance to talk to the others should remember that they could easily go back to the House to socialise , but for many of them it`s too much hassle.

One complaint about the "new regime" is that they`re tightening up on lateness - and about time too in my opinion - I`ve frequently seen pupils ambling up to lessons a good 10 minutes after the start of the lesson - their arrival disrupts the lesson , and they`ve missed part of their education - if done on a regular basis it mounts up!
There`s a bit of a sloppy attitude amongst pupils to punctuality nowadays .

As for smoking and drinking - CH is NOT an isolated island, and therefore it has to comply wihth nationally laid down laws - end of story .

In my opinion, and that`s all it is, a lot of the current complaints are quite petty, and as a parent I welcome many of the changes that are being introduced, , but I do agree, the "Housey spirit" has been quashed somewhat - not being allowed to cheer in assemblies being a major gripe although having heard the awful noise some of the pupils make, I can quite see why its been done. Perhaps the SMT ought to be saying yes you can cheer in assemblies, but no whistles, no boo-ing etc etc and make sure everyone gets a cheer - its not very nice if one person gets a huge cheer and the next receives almost silence . Allow cheering for houses but not for individuals possibly... its difficult to find a solution other than a total ban on cheering altogether.

I`m sure there are many members of the forum who will disagree with me, but there are probably just as many who agree!
But these are only my opinions , formed from from what I`ve seen and heard.

[Angela Woodford]

One complaint about the "new regime" is that they`re tightening up on lateness - and about time too in my opinion - I`ve frequently seen pupils ambling up to lessons a good 10 minutes after the start of the lesson - their arrival disrupts the lesson , and they`ve missed part of their education - if done on a regular basis it mounts up!
There`s a bit of a sloppy attitude amongst pupils to punctuality nowadays .

As for smoking and drinking - CH is NOT an isolated island, and therefore it has to comply wihth nationally laid down laws - end of story .

In my opinion, and that`s all it is, a lot of the current complaints are quite petty, and as a parent I welcome many of the changes that are being introduced, , but I do agree, the "Housey spirit" has been quashed somewhat - not being allowed to cheer in assemblies being a major gripe although having heard the awful noise some of the pupils make, I can quite see why its been done. Perhaps the SMT ought to be saying yes you can cheer in assemblies, but no whistles, no boo-ing etc etc and make sure everyone gets a cheer - its not very nice if one person gets a huge cheer and the next receives almost silence . Allow cheering for houses but not for individuals possibly... its difficult to find a solution other than a total ban on cheering altogether.

I'm absolutely with you on punctuality, Mrs C. It's a habit which can only do you good for the rest of your life.

This cheering thing - "the awful noise some of the pupils make" - could be excellent practice for when they're in the House of Commons... sorry!

I don't like to think of squashing of the Housey spirit. This is something I never knew, and when I visited Horsham several years ago, I seemed to tune into it a little. At Hertford, we were squashed, and I loved to think that those attitudes are now gone.

This all reminds me of the Gormenghast Trilogy - things are different and nobody can say exactly why...

"And there shall be a flame-green daybreak soon. And love itself shall cry for insurrection!"

No... no... I'm only an Old Girl who knows very little But what magical words!

[Ajarn Philip]

As usual, Mrs C is a voice of reason, and I agree with pretty much all she has to say. And I applaud her willingness to say it - it would be very easy to duck away from this issue on this forum. I also have to say what a pleasure it is to have a few more current pupils around, to hear their views and to take pleasure in the mature and sensible way they express themselves (yes, there's always the odd exception). I hope that doesn't sound condescending, because it's not meant to be in any way, shape or form; it simply reminds of how much I took away from CH without realising it at the time, and how it has served me in the (eek) 33 years since I left. Namely, the ability to express yourself clearly, cogently and with confidence.

The applause business is tricky, because there will always be a handful of very popular students (sometimes for all the wrong reasons ) and a handful of unpopular students (who are sometimes likely to be the ones getting the prizes...). Of course, it's a bit late now, but although a new broom may sweep clean, it can also scratch a perfectly shiny floor sometimes - it might have been better to leave things like that and the concert business for the next year or two and concentrate on what really needs to be sorted out - late attendance is a problem that I don't remember, and there aren't too many good excuses when you live on site. It's a problem my colleagues and I (in Thailand) have to deal with regularly at university level, but it's basic bad manners, and as Mrs C said, it is very disruptive.

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind the creation of Grecians' Houses. It seems inevitable that it would distance them for their former Houses, and possibly create a senior elite into the bargain, who may well feel entitled to take a few liberties. The buttons themselves were always a bit of a 'distinction', and I don't think there was anything wrong with that, but the houses were a much bigger step. Was it in the right direction?

[Mid A 15]

As usual, Mrs C is a voice of reason, and I agree with pretty much all she has to say. And I applaud her willingness to say it - it would be very easy to duck away from this issue on this forum. I also have to say what a pleasure it is to have a few more current pupils around, to hear their views and to take pleasure in the mature and sensible way they express themselves (yes, there's always the odd exception). I hope that doesn't sound condescending, because it's not meant to be in any way, shape or form; it simply reminds of how much I took away from CH without realising it at the time, and how it has served me in the (eek) 33 years since I left. Namely, the ability to express yourself clearly, cogently and with confidence.

The applause business is tricky, because there will always be a handful of very popular students (sometimes for all the wrong reasons ) and a handful of unpopular students (who are sometimes likely to be the ones getting the prizes...). Of course, it's a bit late now, but although a new broom may sweep clean, it can also scratch a perfectly shiny floor sometimes - it might have been better to leave things like that and the concert business for the next year or two and concentrate on what really needs to be sorted out - late attendance is a problem that I don't remember, and there aren't too many good excuses when you live on site. It's a problem my colleagues and I (in Thailand) have to deal with regularly at university level, but it's basic bad manners, and as Mrs C said, it is very disruptive.

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind the creation of Grecians' Houses. It seems inevitable that it would distance them for their former Houses, and possibly create a senior elite into the bargain, who may well feel entitled to take a few liberties. The buttons themselves were always a bit of a 'distinction', and I don't think there was anything wrong with that, but the houses were a much bigger step. Was it in the right direction?

At the Maine A Reunion a couple of years back we were shown Grecians East as part of our Tour.

The rationale apparently from what we were told is that as almost all Grecians go on to university the Grecians' houses are a "bridge" between school and halls of residence.

I could see the logic of that. However the Grecians we spoke to seemed to still have a strong allegiance to Maine A so perhaps things have changed in the intervening two years.

[CHAZ]

Indeed it is quite common to find in a lot of Independant HMC schools this seperation between the 7th Form and Middle school or Grecians from Senior Houses...

At Oakham School there was a similar set up in place in early 80s and the argument about "preparation for university" was often cited. The system worked pretty well when I was a teacher there. The pupils were out of school uniform and had to wear coat and tie or dresses for the girls. It was always a long topic of conversation when the new school year began to see how the 6th formers would look in their smart civvies...

The Upper School as it was known also had a team of dedicated tutors who were very much involved in the prepa of university choices etc. They did not participate in any common inter house sports and were only involved in school teams.
Of course there was no marching!

At Oakham, most of the kids I spoke to on the move on to 7th form said they enjoyed the new freedom of no uniform, the Club, closer to town, closer to the girls houses and a different staff attitude. Let's face it these guys are 18 year old and will be projected into the big wide world so need some flexibility and less ruling...I certainly treated them as growing adults ratehr than school children. Soem of them were better dressed than the staff!!

I see the pros and cons of the system. With CH not making any uniform difference but grouping all grecians together, perhaps there are some pitfalls. There is also a geographical distance between the grecian houses and the rest of the avenue, thereby making it quite hard to visit.

In our day it was of course a Junior House for 3 or 2 years and then 4 in the Senior House. The relationship between deps and Grecians was always very close and good. This is surely strained now at CH and I guess the only time you get to see friends is now time that you have to make for yourself which is harder and harder to come by or by being in a school team, band, orchestra or some other collective activity that brings them together.

Nevertheless the final year is also a tense one with A levels to achieve so focus must be here.

Perhaps former house members could be invited back to take prep or do dorm duty once in a while? I odn't see how this would be a problem for the Deps...

Could someone just clear up for me how th enew house system works...You are in a Junior House from day one and then move to Grecians for final year or do you have another move for UF/GE/Deps years?

[hunta42]

Mrs C: The point i was trying to make about people not being invited back to house once they are in Grecians is that one person was invited back and the rest of the people in that house weren't. To the rest of us who were not invited we were all quite upset and found it incredibly rude. The one time we were invited back to house (at Christmas) we were not allowed upstairs to see people. We felt unwelcome in a house we had lived in for 6 years.

CHAZ: the new house systems work so that you are in one house from your second form til your Deps and move to either Grecians East or West depending on your side of the avenue.

[J.R.]

One complaint about the "new regime" is that they`re tightening up on lateness - and about time too in my opinion - I`ve frequently seen pupils ambling up to lessons a good 10 minutes after the start of the lesson - their arrival disrupts the lesson , and they`ve missed part of their education - if done on a regular basis it mounts up!

There`s a bit of a sloppy attitude amongst pupils to punctuality nowadays .

Janet ! That is unbelievable ! I await JH's, DBTS and all the other 'senior' posters to comment on this subject !

I can assure all our YOBS, that in my day - this sort of slackness would have resulted in severe punishment.

I do, to this day, abhor lateness - even a few minutes !

[Katharine]

One complaint about the "new regime" is that they`re tightening up on lateness - and about time too in my opinion - I`ve frequently seen pupils ambling up to lessons a good 10 minutes after the start of the lesson - their arrival disrupts the lesson , and they`ve missed part of their education - if done on a regular basis it mounts up!

There`s a bit of a sloppy attitude amongst pupils to punctuality nowadays .

Janet ! That is unbelievable ! I await JH's, DBTS and all the other 'senior' posters to comment on this subject !

I can assure all our YOBS, that in my day - this sort of slackness would have resulted in severe punishment.

It is so impossible to imagine at Hertford that I have no idea what the punishment would have been!

[sejintenej]

One complaint about the "new regime" is that they`re tightening up on lateness - and about time too in my opinion - I`ve frequently seen pupils ambling up to lessons a good 10 minutes after the start of the lesson - their arrival disrupts the lesson , and they`ve missed part of their education - if done on a regular basis it mounts up!

There`s a bit of a sloppy attitude amongst pupils to punctuality nowadays .

Janet ! That is unbelievable ! I await JH's, DBTS and all the other 'senior' posters to comment on this subject !

I can assure all our YOBS, that in my day - this sort of slackness would have resulted in severe punishment.

I do, to this day, abhor lateness - even a few minutes !

I agree totally; it is insulting to those around you. Just think what would happen if teachers decided to turn up a few minutes late, if breakfast was not ready before you have to go to class, if the train for home left 10 minutes early ................... In my day CH ran like clockwork because things were done on time and the time allowed was adequate for the job (like it took 10 minutes to get up, dress, sort out one's bed and get into Dining Hall in order to lay up tables for breakfast). I can still roll out of bed, wash, shave and dress in about 4 minutes whereas others seem to take 40 minutes to do the same - bl***** frustrating when you are trying to get out of the house in a hurry.

I'm not sure what the punishment would have been - perhaps "early trades" for 3 terms plus a "Mile" a week for a term (to get the guilty party sufficiently fit to get wherever on time)- something distinctly unpleasant without doubt

[midget]

My recollection is that you would have had to work hard on it to manage to be late for anything at Hertford (except music lessons)

[blondie95]

I am appalled by the comments that one avenue houseparent only invited 1 grecian back for a bbq! Unfortunatly it was partially the same betwen my house grecians and our avenue house. In the avenue houseparents eyes two could do no wrong as they were very sporty in all the teams and helped our house win a lot of house leagues...i think they also played on this slightly to their advatnage. However for some of the others we were not really made to feel welcome coming back either by the houseparents and staff or the deps who were happy ruling the house.
.......

Whilst I`m not condoning the action of staff in not inviting Grecians back to Avenue houses, I can understand that it is sometimes not quite so easy for staff to make Grecians feel welcome .
Sometimes staff are new to the house and don`t know the Grecians.
Some Grecians refuse to do ( or are not required to) do duties in the Avenue house , or are unreliable, and yet these same pupils expect to have the benefit of all the social events of their house - hardly fair really.
A number Grecians seem to actually WANT to lose contact with their Avenue houses , although admittedly there are those who don`t , of course.
The issue of marching with Avenue houses is a tough one to crack - yes G`s want to be with their houses - but a large number know they won`t be checked up on if they don`t appear . Marching is a school commitment, just as attendance at lessons and I`m sure that`s why the decision has been made to march as GRE and GRW.
Those Grecians who say they enjoy marching with the house as it gives them chance to talk to the others should remember that they could easily go back to the House to socialise , but for many of them it`s too much hassle.

One complaint about the "new regime" is that they`re tightening up on lateness - and about time too in my opinion - I`ve frequently seen pupils ambling up to lessons a good 10 minutes after the start of the lesson - their arrival disrupts the lesson , and they`ve missed part of their education - if done on a regular basis it mounts up!
There`s a bit of a sloppy attitude amongst pupils to punctuality nowadays .

As for smoking and drinking - CH is NOT an isolated island, and therefore it has to comply wihth nationally laid down laws - end of story .

In my opinion, and that`s all it is, a lot of the current complaints are quite petty, and as a parent I welcome many of the changes that are being introduced, , but I do agree, the "Housey spirit" has been quashed somewhat - not being allowed to cheer in assemblies being a major gripe although having heard the awful noise some of the pupils make, I can quite see why its been done. Perhaps the SMT ought to be saying yes you can cheer in assemblies, but no whistles, no boo-ing etc etc and make sure everyone gets a cheer - its not very nice if one person gets a huge cheer and the next receives almost silence . Allow cheering for houses but not for individuals possibly... its difficult to find a solution other than a total ban on cheering altogether.

I`m sure there are many members of the forum who will disagree with me, but there are probably just as many who agree!
But these are only my opinions , formed from from what I`ve seen and heard.

Mrs C i do agree with you on all your points. I am fully aware that many grecians did not want to go back to their houses and do duties or march and manage to engineer going into dinning hall for lunch to look like they had marched. However many do want to socialise and i along with others were regularly back in my avenue house at other times. And I applaud the Gr E/W marching blcoks- just because they are top of the school does not mean they are above the expectations of the school.

As for the the other gripes i too think they are quite small and all boil down to the fact the new hm is so very different to Southern.

[Great Plum]

One of the gripes that is cited a lot on the Facebook site is that no one sings in chapel anymore... well, why don't you just start singing then?

[kerrensimmonds]

Blimey. Singing full voice in Chapel (both in my 9 years at Hertford, and on the many occasions I have returned as an Old Blue either to Hertford up to 1984 or to Horsham since then) has been an integral part of my instinctive pride in belonging to Christ's Hospital. Watch the Old Blues who belt out the Foundation Hymn without looking at the words [apart from the Herford Old Blues needing these days to look down when they sing the extra verse about woodlands and downlands]. WHY doesn't anyone sing in Chapel any more....????
Should I here mention the Carmen/Votum which we had to learn by heart and which I gather is no longer sung, let alone learned?......

[icomefromalanddownunder]

Should I here mention the Carmen/Votum which we had to learn by heart and which I gather is no longer sung, let alone learned?......

Aarrggghhhhhh - I started hyperventilating as you reminded me of that fact.

I seem to remember someone suggesting that the Carmen had been dropped because singing songs in Latin might be considered elitist - can anyone confirm/deny this. I mean, like, whateva, and wearing that funky/weird/Tudor uniform isn't?

Has a new school song been composed to replace the Carmen? If so, who commissioned it? Was the process competitive? Who voted/chose the replacement? Come to that, who voted on ditching the Carmen?

Maybe this was the begininning of the loss of the School ethos and spirit?

I just can't get my head around people not singing in Chapel. For me it was that, and Miss T's playing, particularly of the Widor, that made it worth getting out of bed on Sunday mornings.

xxxxxxxxxxx

[Ajarn Philip]

Perhaps Mrs C or one of the current pupils can enlighten us on this. Singing in Chapel was one of the pleasures in life. Obviously someone is singing in Chapel -the choir,the Chaplain, the staff. Is it just the students? Is this some form of protest, or do they just not want to sing? Has this come about recently?