Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

[Spartacist]

"oh grow up!".

If not a tad patronising... Why don't you just go and look at the European Court Of Human rights court cases and you will see how "petty" these cases are.... but if it gets the job done.

If you would seriously consider kicking your child out for having sex with their respective partner.... Well, say no more. I need not.

Maybe you are just conservative - like my parents... and therefore, needing to be more leniant.... It put strain on my reltionship with my parents.... And trust me, you don't want to grow up with your child regretting how they were brought up

THis is my reason for having gone to CH in the first place.... now my parents and I see eye to eye - i'm not immature, i'm not unknowing of the world... I'm respectful of their beliefs, and i'm now seeing eye to eye with both my parents.

I hope no one thinks i'm asking for sympathy or anything like that - i'm not.... I'm just warning all of the people

[dinahcat]

Spartacist-I have resisted the temptation to get involved with this thread because it does seem to me to be a bit petty. I can see ,however, from KenHo's post that prospective parents may find it quite worrying -perhaps that is your intention. I wonder if you have an axe to grind with Mrs Franklin about how you have been trested and this colours your view of the school and leads you to believe that more people agree with you that is in fact the case.
I have my own personal horror stories about the school in the past four years and I can honestly say that since Mr Franklin took over I have been much happier and so have my children.
I think the silence of many OBs on here speaks volumes. You are welcome here because you are an OB and the family of CH has broad shoulders and does not turn its back on its own. But make no mistake ,if you are here to undermine the school, stir up trouble where there is none or settle a personal score then you will find no comfort here.
You seem like some one who really cares about the school and maybe made some mistakes along the way- welcome to the club.

[Spartacist]

Spartacist-I have resisted the temptation to get involved with this thread because it does seem to me to be a bit petty. I can see ,however, from KenHo's post that prospective parents may find it quite worrying -perhaps that is your intention. I wonder if you have an axe to grind with Mrs Franklin about how you have been trested and this colours your view of the school and leads you to believe that more people agree with you that is in fact the case.
I have my own personal horror stories about the school in the past four years and I can honestly say that since Mr Franklin took over I have been much happier and so have my children.
I think the silence of many OBs on here speaks volumes. You are welcome here because you are an OB and the family of CH has broad shoulders and does not turn its back on its own. But make no mistake ,if you are here to undermine the school, stir up trouble where there is none or settle a personal score then you will find no comfort here.
You seem like some one who really cares about the school and maybe made some mistakes along the way- welcome to the club.

In response to all you wrote above:

1) I never had more than a Double disciplinary at the school - so no.... I was never a "bad pupil who needs to set a score".... In fact, I was, and still am, a respectable person with views that I share on here for interesting debate. None of this is in my self interest, and hopefully never will be.
2) Mrs Franklin? I have no problem with Mrs Franklin - She treated me very well in English, and I felt she was a brilliant influence on my English - she encouraged me with my poetry (sonnets) she (and Mr Walsh) managed to get me a B over all and I am glad - without this B... I would have failed to get anywhere in life - so really - no, I am eternally thankful.
3) I don't think you can say the silence of OB's - They have spoken a hell of a lot on here, and sex is a topic to do with our generation - sex was something that was left to marriage so many years ago, and therefore when a recent OB is saying that we should be more relaxed with the rules on sexual relationships within a boarding school..... I think you get my point.
4)No, I do not aim to gain attention, or to stir up trouble. I speak on behalf of the current blues that reaped the benefit of CH under Dr Southern. The new SMT should have carried on this good work, and not decided to "make a name for themselves" for the sake of it. Y'know why? Because Christ's Hospital is not Ardingly, and never should be anything like Ardingly... CH is unique and I feel you are missing this point, and missing the CH spirit that I knew.
5) CH will forever remain in my heart, as a place of refuge and brilliance. I am greatful that I got the chance to live there for 7 years, as well as "reap the benefits that this foundation provids for you".... So please.... please.... do not question my passion and love for the school, nor my intentions.

Please do not make allegations about my intent, or my patriotism towards CH.

Kind Regards
S.J

[favouritethings]

"oh grow up!".

If not a tad patronising... Why don't you just go and look at the European Court Of Human rights court cases and you will see how "petty" these cases are.... but if it gets the job done.

If you would seriously consider kicking your child out for having sex with their respective partner.... Well, say no more. I need not.

Maybe you are just conservative - like my parents... and therefore, needing to be more leniant.... It put strain on my reltionship with my parents.... And trust me, you don't want to grow up with your child regretting how they were brought up

THis is my reason for having gone to CH in the first place.... now my parents and I see eye to eye - i'm not immature, i'm not unknowing of the world... I'm respectful of their beliefs, and i'm now seeing eye to eye with both my parents.

I hope no one thinks i'm asking for sympathy or anything like that - i'm not.... I'm just warning all of the people

yes...sounds EXACTLY like my mother, also conservative.

Thus it makes me feel angry when I see things like that. The law has decided that individuals ages sixteen or over are responsible enough to have sex. Therefore I do not see why they should be reprimanded for doing so. Furthermore, when people say they wouldn't let it happen under their own roof, I say, would you rather they were doing it somewhere elses? What benefit is that? If they are doing it, they are doing it, and by not trusting them to behave and act responsibly (i.e. protection and such) and not letting them do it under your roof when they are doing it anyway is to what use? Just so you can pretend it's not happening...

anyway, seriously off topic. It just annoys me.
I don't believe that kids should just be allowed to spread the seed all over the place at school. But I just think this suffocating attitude is way too far.

[favouritethings]

In response to other messages posted recently, if your children are happier, maybe they don't enjoy the social elements of the school so much.

[Ajarn Philip]

Spartacist is a name that conjures up images of a revolting slave (if you see what I mean) or a member of an underground left wing movement in Germany many years ago. Your choice of this name may be for completely different reasons.

Anyway, without wanting to sound or to be patronising, but probably likely to be accused of both, this strikes me as a case of a young man recently starting law studies and getting a bit carried away with the whole thing.

I speak on behalf of the current blues that reaped the benefit of CH under Dr Southern

You do? What kind of mandate do you have?

Much of this is trivial, and has been acknowledged as such (which begs the question 'why bother?'), but the sex issue is certainly not.

If you would seriously consider kicking your child out for having sex with their respective partner.... Well, say no more. I need not.

Kicking your child out of the house is hardly comparable to allowing him/her to be suspended or expelled from school. Trying to make the one sound like the other may be an indication of how good a lawyer you will one day be, but it won't wash here.

favouritethings said:

I don't believe that kids should just be allowed to spread the seed all over the place at school. But I just think this suffocating attitude is way too far.

So you agree that a laissez faire attitude is inappropriate, but think that the current rules are too strict? Then where do you draw the line? Mondays and Fridays only? Between the hours of 6-8 pm?

Sex may be legal if you are 16 or over, but it's not illegal to smoke either, or to walk on the grass. Most school rules don't cover legalities. I don't see the Court of Human Rights getting involved.

I can fully understand prospective and current parents having concerns over this particular issue, and I would suggest that recent Old Blues leave things well alone. If students are so unhappy with the current restrictive and inhumane regime they will presumably ask their parents to remove them. That's when the 'powers that be' might take some interest.

[lonelymom]

I wonder if you have an axe to grind with Mrs Franklin about how you have been trested and this colours your view of the school and leads you to believe that more people agree with you that is in fact the case.

2) Mrs Franklin? I have no problem with Mrs Franklin - She treated me very well in English, and I felt she was a brilliant influence on my English - she encouraged me with my poetry (sonnets) she (and Mr Walsh) managed to get me a B over all and I am glad - without this B... I would have failed to get anywhere in life - so really - no, I am eternally thankful.

Shane, this was obviously a typo. Look back over your posts and see how many you make before you pull others up on theirs!


I have to agree with KenHo on this. My daughters are both young so it does not affect me yet, but my friend's daughter (now 17) has recently started sleeping with her boyfriend, and my friend's attitude is that whilst she knows it is going on and she can't stop it, it is her house and she doesn't want them sleeping together under her roof. Her reason? She has a younger, impressionable daughter, and she doesn't think it's right. I feel this should be the school's attitude too - their rules, stick to them, if you don't like it, leave! I would much rather the school were strict about this than have a run of teenage pregnancies at CH! The school has a duty of care to all of it's pupils - even those old enough to consent!!

[KenHo]

"oh grow up!".

If not a tad patronising... Why don't you just go and look at the European Court Of Human rights court cases and you will see how "petty" these cases are.... but if it gets the job done.

If you would seriously consider kicking your child out for having sex with their respective partner.... Well, say no more. I need not.

They can try using the Human Rights Act, the anti-terrorist legislation, or the Beano Annual 1976, but what I allow in my own house is nobody else's business. None of this legislation applies to the school either, because anyone who wants to break the rules can just leave and break them elsewhere, so their rights in this repect aren't actually breached. In my own case I wouldn't allow non-married people to stay together, let alone those who are 16. Yes, they can go off elsewhere, although this will be hard when they are just 16, but the same applies to the school, if they go on holiday together, and keep it to themselves, then the school has no business interfering.

As for you idea that I might kick out a 16 year old daughter for having sex - how ridiculous. They wouldn't be doing it in my house in the first place in order to get kicked out, and then they would be in a great deal of trouble, but not that much trouble. This seems to reflect pretty much what the school does. And 16 year olds don't have "partners", they have boyfriends and girlfriends who usually come and go, and eventually they all grow up and see that they might have been wrong sometimes after all.

I like the idea of this forum, it has produced some very useful practical advice, but it can be dangerous. I have been using such forums for some years, and can read between the lines quite well. My wife reads the same messages that don't bother me at all and says "oh no, look how bad this is". It is my view that, although people should remain polite, it is good to challenge the more outrageous postings, because otherwise niave users might get a false impression.

[Mrs C.]

In every case of suspension that I know about , parents have been shocked and horrified to hear about the actions of their offspring and have fully supported the school`s decision to suspend them.
It may be legal, as is smoking, but it is still breaking school rules, as is smoking.
Punishments are given for smoking .... need I say more??

If you`re going to invoke Human Rights, then you may as well start saying that doing prep , having to march into lunch, compulsory sports etc against one`s will are all a breach too.

Shane , you will definitely not get OB and parental support on this one!

[huggermugger]

Funnily enough, I logged on this morning specifically to post on this thread and find that a number of existing parents have said a lot of what I think already...

I am not against my kids sleeping with their girlfriend/boyfriend in my house but I believe just like everything else it needs to be by negotiation, not by right. And it is by negotiation with me as the owner of the house and the parent of one of the children, particularly when that person is young (and I consider 16 & 17 to be young).

I have a daughter of 22 (who did not go to CH & wishes she had) and I will not discuss her private life here but suffice to say we have negotiated in the past and I am glad to say we came to an understanding. The process wasn't an easy one but it was part of an open dialogue and it started way before she was 16. One of my maxims, which my children are very familiar with, is "Just because you can doesn't mean you should".

The school stands in loco parentis whilst the pupils are at school. Like parents, they have three choices - accept it, ignore it or ban it. Like parents they run the risks with all three choices. The risks with the first are manifest - if you do accept that it happens, you then have to make provision for consequences and would mean setting all sorts of things in place - provision of condoms, counselling, clinics.. ! The second is simply foolhardy and irresponsible - whether you are a parent or a school imho. The third is the option that a lot of people take, to a greater or lesser degree. It's not the one I chose but then again I was only responsible for one teenager. If I'd had to contend with 150 (?) I do not doubt my decision would have been very different. And how would you take into account the separate and varying wishes of the parents?

The bald fact of the nmatter is that if the school allowed it's sixth formers to have sex with each other, there wouldn't be a sixth form and there may well not be a school as approximately three parents would send their children there.

I will say more later but I have been called upon to rescue a stray terrier!

[lonelymom]

I think part of the problem with this petition is that it is being compiled by current Blues and YOBs, who see things from a different perspective to older Blues and parents. To Shane and his counterparts, with hormones running wild and a feeling of injustice that they are legally old enough to have sex, yet get into trouble for doing so at school, it is a problem. For older Blues and parents we can see that the real problem would be if they WERE allowed to have sex at CH. I can just imagine, on entry to sixth form, every parent being asked to sign a consent form to allow their child to have sex if they wanted to do so, and a disclaimer so CH wouldn't be held responsible for unwanted pregnancies and diseases! I can't imagine many (if any) would sign. And before anyone says that these teenagers wouldn't need their parents' consent because they are of age, don't forget their parents are paying for their education, and therefore have every right to know what is happening while they are away from home!

Plus, as a mother of a daughter who will be 16 soon after starting in year 11, it doesn't just affect the sixth form!

[huggermugger]

Terrier sorted

Anyway... as far as I can see sex wasn't actually on the original agenda... so to go back to the original petition...

Do you know what? Institutions have "stupid" rules. Sometimes they are for the greater good, sometimes they are traditional, sometimes they are unfair and sometimes they are ridiculous. I don't see that any of the things you are objecting to are actually that serious - sorry.

My son is in his second year at CH. My experience of the "SMT" (I am actually unsure exactly who you refer to her but I presume you mean Mr Franklin & Mr Vessey) has been limited. I have had to call on their services once due to ongoing bullying of my DS. I was incredibly impressed by the swift, sensible, firm and (to date) effective way in which the problem was dealt with. This was no heavy handed knee-jerk reaction either, but instead a calm & measured one, tailored to the problem and the age of the children involved. An great deal of understanding and compassion was shown, both to me, my son and the other children involved. It was not a quick fix but involved a lot of input from various members of staff. My son had absolutely no confidence in the ability of any grown up to put things right and saw leaving as the only solution and frankly I could completely understand how and why he felt like that. All this was acknowledged and that confidence has been completely restored to us both. Neither of us assume that it will never happen again but if it does we know we will get the back up we need. What is more, a member of staff said to me " There is more of a will now to tackle this sort of thing and get it right." Frankly, I am more interested in whether the SMT can sort out this sort of thing and keep the children safe from it than whether my son gets more discos, out of house nights or to take part in rock concerts. And I don't want my son staying in bed when he's ill unless he has been properly assessed and is in a place where he is being supervised in case he gets worse. If my child is caught smoking or drinking I expect him to be harshly punished and I would no doubt do something similar at home. I'm not particularly happy about the introduction of Sky into the Houses but it's not a deal breaker. The rule on not being allowed to remove your Housey until the temperature rises above 25 degrees for three consecutive days does seem somewhat absurd but only in terms of the temperature and I suspect that will have to be changed... Anyway, aren't I right in thinking that you only have to wear full uniform in certain formal circumstances? eg: in chapel, into lunch etc?

[Spartacist]

Dear All,

I am withdrawing from this debate based on sex as it really is not my position to talk about it.
I don't want to make enemies, or have angry mums telling me that what I say is.... rude etc.

This has strayed from the original point... the "petition" and the new housey SMT.

For those that have had childrent there for about 2/3 years... they may not feel the main differences at CH - especially the Ethos, of which many recent OB's recognised and felt being taken away from them.

No - I have no mandate - but on the other hand, CH investigating the original "housey peaceful revolution" group on facebook, then telling each of the main contributors that they may well be kicked out if they do anything "wrong" again is a threat to their position in CH just because they want to speak out for themselves. My mandate? It is to serve my friends and patriots of CH. That is all. I would hope each of you would feel the same.

Yes - the "Spartacists" were a left wing group around in germany and active after WW1, but this does not necessarily mean I represent their views and their actions. In truth, socialism is a passive resistance Ideal... not supposed to be violent, but when you have angry right wing nationalists that are also out to attack your way of life... you do need some form of armed wing... (i am refering the german governments use of the Freikorps). Yes, you do sound patronising, but then again, your years far outweigh mine, and I must sound a little arrogant as I stand up for my beliefs and the beliefs that many others across the world, of my generation.... hold. Agreed?

Finally - Yes - Sex is something that needs to be more liberal - I understand that it is "not a good influence" etc on your younger children - but sex at CH isn't really going to take place around younger children at CH. I am not trying to justify CH allowing sex totally - I am suggesting a relaxation on the rule of "comprimising position" - that is very open to interpretation.

I think I have covered as much as I can....

Forgive me if you feel I have wronged you or tried to put a smear campaign upon the school I love so dearly. This was never what I intended.

Kind regards,
Faithfully,
Shane Jones

[Mrs C.]

Hot off the press

The Rock Concert will run ..... with a selection of bands drawn from the UF to Grecian year groups being auditioned .... over the next few weeks.

so you see, it`s not just for Grecians` bands!

[J.R.]

d freedom of speech is still alive and well, unlike in some other countries.

By the way Janet, whats with all this [url] stuff ?